City Council Minutes 3-6-18

TREMONTON CITY CORPORATION
CITY COUNCIL MEETING

MARCH 6, 2018

Members Present:
Diana Doutre
Lyle Holmgren
Jeff Reese (via phone)
Bret Rohde
Lyle Vance
Roger Fridal, Mayor
Shawn Warnke, City Manager
Cynthia Nelson, City Deputy Recorder

CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP

Mayor Fridal called the March 6, 2018 City Council Workshop to order at 5:41 p.m. The meeting was held in the City Council Meeting Room at 102 South Tremont Street, Tremonton, Utah. Those in attendance were Mayor Fridal, Councilmembers Doutre, Holmgren, Reese (via phone), Rohde, and Vance, City Manager Warnke, and Deputy Recorder Nelson. The following Department Heads were also present: Public Works Director Paul Fulgham, Police Chief David Nance, and Treasurer Sharri Oyler. Also in attendance were: City Engineer Chris Breinholt (left at 6:43 p.m.).

1. Discussion and review of tasks, policies, strategies, and issues surrounding the implementation of a pressurized secondary water system within Tremonton City’s incorporated limits which may include, but is not limited to:

 Possible rates for secondary water based upon lot sizes.
 Other matters pertaining to the creation of policy and completion of tasks associated with the implementation of a pressurized secondary water system
 Cost as compared to what customers are currently paying versus what they will be paying in the future
 The cost difference of a partial build out versus a full build out
 Current system capacity for providing culinary water service and statutory requirements certification done by the City Engineer.

Manager Warnke said previously the Council asked City staff to obtain the cost for engineering services, an inventory for different lot sizes in different zones, along with what the Bear River Water Conservancy District can provide the City. Councilmember Vance asked if lot development is still being stopped as that should have been ironed that out during last City Council meeting. Director Fulgham said what came before the Land Use Authority Board last week was not ready to be passed. It was not because of water shortage, it is because their plans were not ready. Councilmember Vance asked if a developer came in and was ready, if they would be allowed to develop the lots at this point. Engineer Breinholt said we are going to talk about where we are. We also need to discuss strategies and how to proceed for next summer, which is when the impact for new developments will hit the system, during that peak use time.

Councilmember Vance brought up the potential for having the Conservancy District add a booster pump. Director Fulgham said we have worked with the District and that is on the agenda tonight. Engineer Breinholt said we are in the hole about 450 gallons per minute. The District pump would give us about 300 gallons per minute, but we are still in the hole. Service areas 1 and 2 are in the works to be designed and out for bid, which will help us break even with existing development, but we are talking about adding new connections to a system that already cannot produce enough for peak day demand. We are catching up by doing these things, but not getting ahead. Councilmember Vance asked how we can get past the point of stopping people from developing lots. Director Fulgham said if we could complete service areas 1, 2 and 3 that would get us ahead of the game. Engineer Breinholt said we could bid out service area 3 this fall or even spring to help get people on the system before July 2019 hits. This would allow head room for new connections. Councilmember Holmgren asked if Engineer Breinholt has construction plans for the next stage. Engineer Breinholt said not until the Council tells me to do that. We have done the Capital Facility Plan, which sized all the lines and laid it out. We still need to get bidding documents.

Councilmember Rohde said he was not under the impression we were in such a dire state that we were stopping people from developing and thought we were okay to continue developing, but needed to move forward and come up with answers on what we were going to do to provide water. Councilmember Rohde also said his frustration came when we said no you cannot develop because we do no have enough water and because the City Council cannot make up there mind. That really felt like we were being strong armed into making decisions that I am not in a position to make right now. Engineer Breinholt said he certified the system at the end of 2016 and at that point had said we are out of water and this is the last time I can do this without the City making some changes. We moved along hoping things would move faster, but it is a complex issue and cannot always move quickly. A new law came out this year that removed certification from the State and put it more on the designated system engineer. The reason I am on there is to say yes we are compliant with State Code, but I am signing them and we are not compliant. We need to do something. I start worrying about my license and some sort of penalty.

Director Fulgham said we work with springs, which change yearly. He referred the Council to a document showing what the City’s sources produced. Our sources in 2016, when they could produce all the water possible, was about 3,000 gallons per minute and in 2017 it was 3,500 gallons per minute because of the previous wet fall and winter. In 2017, at our peak, we produced about 5.1 million gallons a day. In 2016 we had about 4.3 million gallons a day. In 2015 we had issues and the Mayor passed the no water Wednesdays to help us catch up and squeak though the summer. It goes back on me because I have never been the type of guy to say the sky is falling. I knew we were working to get things done, but maybe we did not work fast or hard enough or I did not portray that to the Council and explain that those two summer months are really hard. In our Capital Facilities Plan of 2013, Engineer Breinholt projected we would need a peak day demand of 4.68 million gallons a day, but the State standard says we should be producing 6.1 million gallons a day. We are a little bit different from the standard, but we have always been able to make it work. On the indoor usage, they project we need more than we actually use, but outdoor usage we are using about 1,500 gallons per day, per home, on peak day demand. Councilmember Reese asked if in the last two years there has been anything in the minutes that says we were going to have to shutdown development if something does not happen. Councilmember Doutre said we need to go past what happened. We cannot do a thing about the past, so what do we do now. Director Fulgham said every home we can take off the culinary system would help. Director Fulgham recommended developing service areas 1 through 5 because that is the best bang for our buck. The next step would be service area 3, which would cost about $2.5 million and could get 734 homes on the secondary system.

Councilmember Holmgren said if we were to do service area 3 right now, we would save water and be able to get really good at this—we would know how to do the rest. Director Fulgham said that would buy us a big breath of fresh air while we catch up on other areas. Councilmember Holmgren said we do not have perfect information, but by the time we get done with service area 3, we will have good information. At this point we should go ahead and make the commitment to do that. We have enough water shares to do service area 3, but not for 3 and 5. He said he would like to talk to Engineer Breinholt about spreading the water shares further. Engineer Breinholt agreed, but said the challenge is with the Canal Company. Right now we are told one share per irrigated acre. In time, we will be able to show them actual data because it will be metered. Councilmember Holmgren highly recommended we consider going ahead with service area 3. Councilmember Rohde asked about going forward regardless of how much it is going to cost the citizens. Councilmember Holmgren said we have a good idea for that, looking at the different sized lots and charging accordingly (smaller lots charged less than larger lots). Councilmember Vance asked if only those in zone 3 (or functioning areas) would be charged the monthly fee. Director Fulgham said that is a decision of the Council. Councilmember Reese asked if the rate for those who are already pay $15 a month for secondary would be adjusted. Director Fulgham said yes, they have been subsidized by the culinary already. Councilmember Reese said we should not have given developer Marc Allred the go ahead just because he has secondary water and not the other developers. It is not fair. Engineer Breinholt said Councilmember Reese is right, I did not really put my foot down and we were just dragging our feet. In December we were getting into this and said lets hold off and not approve these until we have direction on the secondary water system. Then we had a couple that come up with secondary water and their impact was so much less than these others. But you are right it is either, let them build or not and that is my mistake. I have been dragging my feet because we were still discussing options.

Councilmember Doutre asked about the State legislation for putting in meters and asked if we get this going, if we will have to fight that. Director Fulgham said that has not passed yet and will not this year. Our meter-manufacturing master is making a magnetic meter that has no moving parts. I will try them on our existing system to see if our water quality can be metered. We cannot use meters with moving parts because our water will wear them out. These new ones cost the same as the other meters ($235 a piece). They can be put in a regular irrigation box and it would cost about $300 per lot by the time you buy the meter and the parts for it. It is doable, but I hope we do not go that route. The Canal Company requires all pump systems to put in a master meter, which we have already done. That will help us track our usage and give them the readings.

Councilmember Vance asked about other alternatives and if there anything else that can get us over the top so we are not stopping growth, such as every other day watering. Engineer Breinholt said any option that conserves is good. In 2016, there were days we were using more water than we could produce. Director Fulgham said the problem with odd and even watering days, is that people water more than they need to on the days they can water. The only way we can adjust that is through a tiered water rate, hitting their pocket books. He directed them to his report and said anytime we exceed 2,800 to 3,500 gallons per minute that is when we are bumping our head on peak day demand. Councilmember Vance asked if we as a Council approved doing service area 3 tonight, if that would give Engineer Breinholt enough to start signing off and certifying that we have enough water. Engineer Breinholt said yes, but it is not going to make any difference this summer because the impact for new develop will hit next summer. Completing service area 3 will give us about 477 gallons per minute and get us caught up. The Conservancy District’s pump gets us a little over the standard. Then we can talk about how to get ahead in the future.

Councilmember Vance asked if the Council has to make an order for Engineer Breinholt to do an estimate on costs before we can get a hard bid. Engineer Breinholt said the next step is to decide we are going to go ahead with this project. He would then design and put the construction documents out for bid and then we would bond. The low hanging fruit for service areas 1 and 2 will wrap up shortly, which are easy connections for the existing systems, with not much cost. Director Fulgham said we would expand and update the system for service areas 1 and 2. We would start from scratch for service area 3. Then when we get to service area 5, we would have 80% of the City on secondary water. Councilmember Rohde said he would like to see us move forward with as many as we can, that will give us the biggest bang for our buck and he is good with that just as long as he knows what it will cost the citizens.

Councilmember Vance asked how much it is going to cost to put the numbers together for service areas 1 through 5. Director Fulgham said we will do a lot of the utility work in the field instead of during pre-engineering. There might be some change orders that have to happen if we encounter the unexpected, but there is contingency factored in to cover that. Engineer Breinholt said in the construction estimates and the Capital Facility plan, engineering is part of that 30% contingency. We have talked about ways to cut that down. Normal engineering for projects nationwide is 10 to 15% of the construction cost. Jones and Associates runs around 6 to 7% and this will be under 2%. The Public Works Department can help, which will trim the cost too. Councilmember Doutre asked about going under the railroad. Director Fulgham said there are fees and permits, but it is just a process. Manager Warnke said service area 3 would cost $2.8 million with a 30% contingency. At some point we are bonding. He needs to catch up with Finance Director Roberts to verify the numbers, but if the Council is looking to do more than service area 3, that changes the picture. We do not have enough in reserves to do service area 3 without a bond. Councilmember Rohde talked about doing service areas 1 through 5, as well as getting water in from the Conservancy District with the booster pump. That is the direction he would like to see us go. Let us get the numbers back then we can figure out how much it will cost each citizen. Then we can let developers start going. Engineer Breinholt said if the plan is to have at least service area 3 under construction by next summer, then we cover ourselves for the 2019 water year. Councilmember Rohde said his only concern is if we come back with the numbers and it is going to cost each citizen $50 to $60 per month. Mayor Fridal asked what our choices are. We have to progress forward or we close the City. If we want to continue to grow, we have to have water. Councilmember Holmgren said we need to leverage culinary water as much as we can. Councilmember Vance asked how long it would take to get the estimated cost to construct service areas 1 through 5. Engineer Breinholt said he could move it up on his priority list, but it could take a couple months to put the numbers together. Councilmember Holmgren wondered if they could get started on service area 3 now. Councilmember Vance asked if we have enough money in our fund to do service area 3. Manager Warnke said we do not. Councilmember Vance said if we bond, we either do it or we do not do it. We have to know what it is going to cost us then we can make a decision. Manager Warnke said he would talk to Finance Director Roberts to see if there might be some inter-fund loans and what other options we have financially. He suggested putting the City in a position where we are conserving water and building revenue for equality across the different zones. We may want to consider raising culinary rates to accomplish that. When we do start building out a zone, it is going to be in that $35 to $45 range.

The Council and City staff talked about bonding in chunks or all at once based on their estimates, along with the possibility of buying all the pipe upfront. Councilmember Vance said we need to get the municipal lenders on the phone and ask them. We need to order Engineer Breinholt to get the final numbers so we can talk to the banks about bonding. Engineer Breinholt said even when he puts a bid together, it will still be an estimate. Lenders do not require actual bid prices to bond—by that time we are already committed. I have not done it with other cities, but our office has based on these types of documents. Councilmember Vance suggested we go to the municipal lender and find out what it is going to take to do a revenue bond. We need to make the order. Director Fulgham said Engineer Breinholt will start the design work on service areas 3 through 5, starting with 3. Councilmember Vance asked if the Council can vote on this tonight. Councilmember Rohde said we can ask Engineer Breinholt to do it and that is enough. Councilmember Vance thought the Council did that last week. Manager Warnke said the Council left off last meeting wanting to know what the engineering cost would be to do the design work, which is what we brought to this meeting. This is not an item for action. All the Council needs to do is direct Engineer Breinholt on what to do. Councilmember Holmgren said go ahead and start the work on 3 through 5. Get all the information so we can start approaching lenders and get the bonding process started. Engineer Breinholt recommended building service area 3 by itself one summer and service area 5 by itself another summer. We will pick up area 4 and the rest of 1 and 2 another summer to make it a three-year construction plan. He does not want it so big that local contractors cannot do it—that is where we will get our best prices. Councilmember Holmgren said this gives Engineer Breinholt the green light. Director Fulgham said all we are on the hook for is to pay for that design cost from Engineer Breinholt. The Council, except Councilmember Reese, who was opposed, gave Engineer Breinholt the go ahead. We will put this on the next agenda for a motion.

Engineer Breinholt said, for the record, no development was told no that was ready for approval. We have moved people along hoping we could get to this point. The plans that were before us at the last Land Use Meeting were not ready for approval, regardless of water. We have not held anyone up. Councilmember Rohde said the perception was that they were and we need to have that clarified in the Leader.

Director Fulgham said he and Councilmember Holmgren are meeting with the Canal Company next Wednesday. We are still discussing the option of swapping our water from the Treatment Plant out of the canal. If not, we can pump it right into our secondary system, but it is easier if we can swap it. That is 900,000 gallons a day. Councilmember Holmgren said that would be a good thing. One of the Canal Company’s representatives seems positive about the Board being willing to go along with it if we can show that E.coli and other things in our water is less than what is already in the canal.

Manager Warnke talked about the information put together by BRAG on lot sizes. They took the best data they had available. It included partial data for the County and point data, which identified buildings. All these parcels do have buildings, but does not always equate to a connection. There is a little discrepancy and we are going to try and tune up BRAG’s numbers with Engineer Breinholt’s numbers. One thing we identity is that Engineer Breinholt’s numbers did not include Main Street where we have commercial buildings and no irrigable acres, but BRAG’s data did. We are going to try to reconcile those numbers. He also directed the Council to a chart for connections and lot acreage. We cannot create a large rate and apply it to a few thinking we are going to make up the difference. We are not sure we can create a break big enough to have the larger lots essentially carry a burden that is not proportionate to some of these smaller lots. We can look at the smallest lots and have them pay less, but it is not a big swing.

Motion by Councilmember Holmgren to move into closed session. Motion seconded by Councilmember Rohde. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

The Council moved into a closed session at 6:43 p.m.

2. CLOSED SESSIONS:

a. Strategy session to discuss the purchase of real property when public discussion of the transaction would disclose the appraisal or estimated value of the property under consideration or prevent the public body from completing the transaction on the best possible terms; and/or
b. Strategy session to discuss the character, professional competence or physical or mental health of an individual; and/or
c. Strategy sessions to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation
d. Discussions regarding security personnel, devices or systems

Motion by Councilmember Rohde to return to open session. Motion seconded by Councilmember Vance. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

The Council returned to open session at 6:56 p.m.

The meeting adjourned at 6:56 p.m. by consensus of the Council.

CITY COUNCIL MEETING

Mayor Fridal called the March 6, 2018 City Council Meeting to order at 7:04 p.m. The meeting was held in the Tremonton City Council Meeting Room at 102 South Tremont Street, Tremonton, Utah. Those in attendance were Mayor Fridal, Councilmembers Doutre, Holmgren, Reese (via phone), Rohde, and Vance, City Manager Warnke, and Deputy Recorder Nelson. The following Department Heads were also present: Public Works Director Paul Fulgham, Police Chief David Nance, and Treasurer Sharri Oyler. Sergeant Nick Nessen was also in attendance.

1. Opening Ceremony:

Mayor Fridal informed the audience that he had received no written or oral request to participate in the Opening Ceremony. He asked anyone who may be offended by listening to a prayer to step out into the lobby for this portion of the meeting. The prayer was offered by Councilmember Vance and the Pledge of Allegiance was led by Dustyn Deakin.

2. Introduction of guests:

Mayor Fridal welcomed those in attendance, including a group of scouts.

3. Approval of Agenda:

Motion by Councilmember Holmgren to approve the agenda of March 6, 2018. Motion seconded by Councilmember Vance. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

4. Approval of minutes – February 20, 2018

Motion by Councilmember Rohde to approve the minutes of February 20, 2018. Motion seconded by Councilmember Holmgren. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

5. Allowance to be heard:

a. An allowance for any interested persons to be heard on adopting Resolution No. 18-12 appointing a Tremonton City representative to serve on the Box Elder Mosquito Abatement District Board Member for a four-year term

Manager Warnke said this is really specific to the State Statue on the appointment process and does require a special place on the agenda. There was a public notice period that the City has followed. The notice allowed for any interested individuals to submit a letter volunteering to be on the Board. Typically, it is someone on the Council that is on the Board, but the Mosquito Abatement Board meets the same night as City Council so there is an alternative process that allows the Council to appoint someone else. David Jones was the only person to submit a letter of interest. He has been serving in that role for the last four years. There was also a letter submitted by Mosquito Abatement recognizing him for his outstanding service and recommending he be considered to fill the appointment going forward. The only requisite is that he is a registered voter, which he is. The resolution to appoint him is item 8.c.

Motion by Councilmember Holmgren to close the allowance to be heard for this appointment. Motion seconded by Councilmember Vance. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

6. Proclamation:

a. Declaring April 10, 2018 as National Service Recognition Day

Manager Warnke said this came forward by way of BRAG, who is involved in coordinating this. Councilmember Doutre then read the proclamation. After approval, Mayor Fridal signed it.

Motion by Councilmember Vance to approve National Service Recognition Day. Motion seconded by Councilmember Doutre. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

7. Public comments: Comments limited to three minutes.

There were no public comments.

8. New Council Business:

a. Discussion and consideration of approving Resolution No. 18-10 expressing gratitude to the Bear River Water Conservancy District (BRWCD) and formally requesting that the BRWCD commence design and construction on the Booster Pump Station that will provide more source production to Tremonton City

Mayor Fridal said the Conservancy District’s plan is to move forward and it will take six to nine months to have the project completed. Councilmember Vance asked about the cost to the City. Manager Warnke said there is no upfront cost, the City will just pay the water bill.

Motion by Councilmember Vance to approve the resolution and let the Conservancy District add the pump. Motion seconded by Councilmember Holmgren. Roll Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

b. Discussion and consideration of approving Resolution No. 18-11 approving a professional services agreement with Aqua Engineering, Inc for engineering services for wastewater treatment solid handling and nutrient removal projects

Director Fulgham said this is our contract to get Aqua Engineering going on the project design so we can bid it out. Manager Warnke said he read the terms and conditions and in working with Brad Rasmussen, the engineer, has some modifications of the terms and conditions that would be more favorable for Tremonton. If the Council approves this, with that allowance, and wants to know the specifics of what he is proposing or suggesting to Brad, he would be happy to share that. It is mostly in favor of Tremonton and a deviation from Aqua Engineering’s standard terms and conditions.

Director Fulgham said there are two projects. One is solids handling, which is growth based ($800,000). The second is for nutrient removal, which is the new regulation that has to be done by 2020. The wastewater discharge and the solids handling will allow us to get them out of the digester faster and alleviate odor problems. That is all budgeted money so nothing will have to be borrowed. Councilmember Vance asked if this gets us up to par. Director Fulgham said, as far as nutrient removal, this will get us up to par, but as for the solids handling, it will get us above par. As our neighboring city pulls out and gets on their own facility, we will be ahead of the game, closer to 2030 before we have to do anything else. Manager Warnke said 2030 is based on our anticipated growth rate. A large industry coming to Tremonton could change that. Director Fulgham said impact fees would help facilitate that growth. Mayor Fridal asked when the phosphorus project would take place. Director Fulgham said designing will start this fall and will be built in the winter. The project has to be completed by December 2020.

Motion by Councilmember Holmgren to approve the two projects with the addition of having Manager Warnke negotiate with Aqua Engineering. Motion seconded by Councilmember Rohde. Roll Call Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

c. Discussion and consideration of adopting Resolution No. 18-12 appointing a Tremonton City representative to serve on the Box Elder Mosquito Abatement District as a board member

Motion by Councilmember Doutre to approve the resolution and appoint David Jones as the Tremonton representative. Motion seconded by Councilmember Rohde. Roll Call Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

9. Calendar Items and Previous Assignment

a. Review of calendar

Manager Warnke reminded the Council about the Youth City Council dinner on Friday, as well as a grand opening for P&G on March 15 from 9:30-12. It is an open house and the Council is welcome to attend. It was also confirmed that all but Councilmember Vance would attend the Utah League of Cities and Towns Conference in St. George in April.

b. Review of past assignments

10. Reports & Comments:

a. City Manager Reports and Comments
b. City Department Head Reports and Comments
c. Council Reports and Comments

Councilmember Rohde said we got an email from Parks and Recreation Coordinator Zach LeFevre about the library hosting their summer reading kick off in conjunction with the movie in the park on June 4. The Library has invited the Council to grill the hot dogs and be involved in that youth event.

Councilmember Holmgren said the Arts Council is up and going. We will have a meet and greet for local artists on March 29. It is a soiree—a gathering of artists—and has been a lot of fun so far.

Motion by Councilmember Holmgren to move into closed session. Motion seconded by Councilmember Rohde. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

The Council moved into a closed session at 7:28 p.m.

11. CLOSED SESSIONS:

Motion by Councilmember Doutre to return to open session. Motion seconded by Councilmember Rohde. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

The Council returned to open session at 7:53 p.m.

12. Adjournment.

Motion by Councilmember Rohde to adjourn the meeting. Motion seconded by Councilmember Vance. Vote: Councilmember Doutre – aye, Councilmember Holmgren – aye, Councilmember Reese – aye, Councilmember Rohde – aye, Councilmember Vance – aye. Motion approved.

The meeting adjourned at 7:53 p.m.

The undersigned duly acting and appointed Recorder for Tremonton City Corporation hereby certifies that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of the minutes for the City Council Meeting held on the above referenced date. Minutes were prepared by Jessica Tanner.

Dated this 3rd day of April, 2018.

Linsey Nessen, City Recorder

Follow-up items for the Council and City Staff

The Council approved Engineer Breinholt to start the design work on service areas 3 through 5, starting with 3. Once they have the information, they will start approaching lenders for the bonding process.

Director Fulgham and Councilmember Holmgren are meeting with the Canal Company to discuss the possibility of swapping water from the Wastewater Treatment for canal water. They will provide an update at the next meeting.

Manager Warnke will reconcile the numbers from BRAG and Engineer Breinholt on lot sizes in the area.

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